Note: no specifics are being discussed here, only general ideas so we can gauge's everyone's interest!

1. HEALING.
- Currently we are working on completing the healing guide and adding new herbs to it. We have been discussing adding a feature that will make healing more necessary -- perhaps by adding a new feature to the more dangerous fights (i.e. for maim fights, pack challenges, sieges, and even death matches) by giving out injuries that must be treated by someone skilled in healing. For example, a minor cut might need to be treated by someone of low rank in the healing skill (we will flesh out the skills and ranks soon), while something more severe like an amputated tail would need someone of much higher healing rank. This not only will force people to use healers, but would make them fairly valuable in packs. I think forcing something extreme like death if an injury is not treated is pretty harsh, but maybe a large point subtraction from future fights until the injury is healed.


2. HUNTING.
- Increase member caps via hunting more! If you hunt a certain amount the member cap will be increased for the next one or two seasons.
- Add in a hunting mini-game (not required) that will earn gems for all who participate.
- Complete the hunting guide, including where prey animals are located, how many wolves to take them down, etc. Big game will be more risky (higher chance of injury) and will take more wolves to kill.
- Possibility  of adding in hunting requirements, perhaps in terms of pounds of meat? Big game can be taken down in one thread with a larger group, or wolves can delegate to hunt in smaller groups. This will encourage teamwork and activity, rather than small two-participant threads. Some kind of penalty for not hunting enough? -- such as fertility reductions, reduced fight points, etc.

3. RAIDS.
- Raiding other pack lands for resources!! (food, herbs) -- this could easily tie into the hunting caps if we decide to have them. If you don't like hunting, or decide that food is scarce in your lands, you can raid another pack's lands for game.
 
A raid is a small group of wolves affecting an attack on a pack for some form of resources. Raiders can be made up of either wolves from a single pack, or a group of rogues, but groups cannot be mixed between the two and the defenders must be an officially recognized pack. Defenders must all be from the same pack - allies will not be permitted to participate in raids. Group sizes will be limited to a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 10 raiders, and only the first 10 defenders will be permitted to participate.

All wolves including defenders must have been in their respective statuses (member of that pack or a rogue) for 1 ooc week prior to the raid, and raiders must all have posted in a completed IC meeting thread to participate. In that meeting it is required that the raiders state their intended resource (this can be something like water in a drought, or herbs that cannot be found elsewhere, the right to hold a single hunt in that pack's lands, or in the case of one pack raiding another, prisoners/slaves, but lands cannot be claimed and rogues cannot claim packwolves) and must have a clear leader.

Raid fights will be a maximum of two rounds. As in a siege, each wolf is allowed to fight until they either are knocked out or reach their limit of knock-outs. Each wolf is allowed 2 knock outs before they are no longer allowed to continue and must leave - no one may contest them leaving since they are no longer allowed to fight. There are no DMs (unless both parties have a mutual agreement to do so) but wolves can chose from maims, claims (if the raiders are pack wolves) or dominance battles. The raid is over when there are no more wolves able to fight on one side. In the event that the defenders are the last wolves able to continue to fight, they will have driven off the raiders. If the raiders are the only ones left standing, they are able to claim the resource stated in the IC meeting and the raid is over. In the event that there is no response to the raid from the defending pack within three days the raid is considered successful and the resource acquired. There must be 2 ooc weeks between all raids.

Now... discuss! Ask questions, give opinions, anything to help flesh out these ideas.

Discussion within this thread would be most helpful so we have a record of thoughts and suggestions and questions, so we aren't answering the same over and over! :) There are other ideas to add to this but they are slightly less fleshed out and we do still need some surprises, eh?

I love all these ideas :3 especially hunting!!! Great on guys!

I have to say I love all of these ideas! I particularly like the idea of gems for these hunting mini-games and the idea of raiding another pack for food.

love it! Encourages more activity to, i like the healing one, since i don't think healers on ala are used to their full potential.

So will hunting effect rouges? Will this be to encourage them to join packs? Deduction in fight points since they may not get enough food?

I really like the healing suggestions. It could be interesting to see how they'd properly he used. -snugs Sage- Although I am curious as to how they would be ranked in terms of skill.

Thank you guys for the positive feedback so far! We're glad to see that the ideas are liked and supported by those who have so far responded. c: 

However, we would prefer we keep the topic of the thread on questions and possible suggestions that anyone may have concerning the implementation of these features to the site. We want input from everyone before anything is brought into the game, so ask any and all questions you may have so that we can fix or adjust anything that needs it while it's still in the developmental stage. 

Also, in response to Luis's question, thank you for asking that. It's actually something that we hadn't considered ourselves, so unfortunately for the moment we're going to need to discuss it before we can get an answer back to you. But thank you for pointing it out! 

Raising the value of healers sounds like a spectacular idea. However, we may want to consider either working on making judgings quicker (which I understand that judging takes time so this is unlikely) or we need to discontinue the whole "it's been too long so injuries don't matter" thing or it'll remain fairly useless. It was kind of pointless to say in the first place because it's nice to have an end tally of their injuries (especially ones modified if your opponent was PPing or GMing or something) so we can see what we want to end up as scars and such. Simple solution would be that healing times start at the time of judging. Not all fights will result in wounds that will need a healer, let alone a high level healer, but if they do that will start from the time the judging is posted. Your suggestion about the end tally of wounds is noted also - generally speaking our healing times are so short however that if the judging is delayed it really would have already healed, but having an end tally anyway is certainly an option and will be discussed among staff and judges.

Hunting requirements sound fine but even in more active days, there always seems to be trouble finishing threads/getting members to attend group events like that. Perhaps consider getting half food or whatever from unfinished threads over a certain number of posts? Sometimes there's nothing an alpha can do to keep a thread from dying. Asking players to post doesn't always have a favorable result and getting more active members isn't something you can just go out and do with a snap of your fingers. While this is true, a completed hunt thread is simply when the animal is taken down. You don't need all members to finish it for the hunt to be successful. Just like with pack meetings, imposing IC and OOC consequences (a wolf getting kicked out of the pack if it doesn't participate for instance) is really up to the alpha. That said we are indeed discussing this! Because it is sometimes hard to get people to post again in hunts and what happens if your high level hunter doesn't post again? We just haven't gotten as indepth with this one because we didn't know if people were even going to be ok with imposing this measure.

Raids sound fine and I like the mechanics to them. Good stuff.

EDIT: Oh, about raids. What about while the raids are in progress? Whenever the check on penalties for not having enough food or whatever comes around, will they still be penalized while a raid is in progress? Yes, because the way you would get food from a pack would be the right to hold a single hunt thread on their land so the raid would need to be won or defaulted in their favor before they could hold that hunt. No default extensions, lowered default times (like in sieges) and fewer allowable knock outs should help keep the time it takes to raid down. We will have to run through a raid scenario to see for certain however. - Tealah

Okay, personally, just stating I do not like the idea of raids. Despite what was said on maintenance I still feel like those alphas who have less skill will get targeted for these as well. Because even if you practice like hell things like fighting take time to increase and not everyone can simply learn by reading the fights, as everyone has a different learning style. I know personally I can't learn like that, and I actually have to learn by writing my own posts and seeing the critiques on my own work to actually understand where I need to improve.

I guess I'm also edgy about the whole thing because it does seem to me that certain characters / users are picked on more than others too. It may not be meant to come off that way, but I am a paranoid git and don't want to see these raids happening to the point where more users quit Ala because they feel uncomfortable or targeted because other people want their characters to fight and win. I feel wary over the raids as well because they just seem like a new name for siege and I just do not see this going well based on my time that I've been on Ala. Drawn out things involving fighting end up having quite a few defaults because people either don't have time or muse. I think that implementing the raids will actually cripple activity on the site, especially when not all users like fighting.

Now I'm sure there is going to be a counter argument here;; If people don't like to fight don't make them fight! This is where my concern of packs getting targeted also comes in. If they know Bob, Sue, Larry, and Charlie make up the core of the pack with their wolves and Sue, Larry, and Charlie don't fight or are poor fighters I feel like this pack is going to get hit with tons of raids. Even with the period of waiting before and after I still feel very wary of this idea. It in some way seems like fighting is trying to be indirectly forced for users to participate and I don't like that.

Again, this is probably just paranoia talking here. My main concern is just the same as I stated in fight threads; even if you practice fighting it takes time to better yourself and not everyone is going to grow as fast as others. I still feel like this will be taken advantage of, regardless of setting.

I think raids should be discussed among pack leaders individually to see how each user feels about it. Maybe take a tally on who agrees and who doesn't? I would say to have a private group discussion with all the leaders, but that might make the one's that don't want raids feel uncomfortable with stating their opinion. Ask them why they don't want them and maybe alter some things around to make them more comfortable?

I would personally love being in a siege/raid. Probably because I've never been in one but I think it draws more excitement and more drama between packs and maybe even members of each pack if they are family or friends. But I do agree with Keno that it could very well cause members to leave the site and hit our activity level down.

Ala has been starting to grow on fights, maims, claims; I've seen more death matches since i rejoined then my old days on ala. It upsets a lot of members either because there isn't enough fighting, or someone isn't comfortable with fighting. I want to learn fighting, which is why I have uped my challenges, but I'm still uncomfortable with not being able to win. If I were an Alpha in this situation, I probably would feel very intimidated by other packs who have more experienced fighters.

As for hunting and healing, I like the idea of having a mandatory limit for each thing. I'm still really interested to see if we are going to use the skill sets that are in our profiles, and if it will relate to these new features.

And as Luis mentioned, I think there should be penalties for Rouges too. More realistic, especially since most rouges don't live with a family or others. Could even cause them to ask packs for food or fight others for food.

Deadlines and the length of hunting requirements should obviously be discussed, I have no preference for time limits.

And also, would there be like a score of how much supplies are brought into packs? If raids are possibly going to be a no go, then the hunting and healing requirements would still need a score. Maybe put a post in the pack pages and alpha's edit it as others bring in supplies? Of course there could be a starter score. Packs could make their own rules on how much members can take or a rule of "You hunt it you take it". Or you bring in all the medical herbs and they will be evenly distributed around to healers, this would be all pack rules and decisions.


(Totally need a hunger games theme of penalties for asking for food, < this is a joke lol)

Just as a note, there has been one DM and that was a total willing match. In most cases, DM's are both agreed upon.

I don't know if it helps change your opinion on raids at all, but we were never able to find a fair way to integrate raiding for slaves in a fair manner (because what happens if the defenders don't show up? the raiders just go into the pack list and pick who they want? Nope) so though it does say slave raids are an option that's really not, we just haven't reworded it... raids are really only for things such as a hunt, or herbs, or water - the sort of thing a pack is not going to actually lose anything by ignoring the raids but might be necessary IC. A pack doesn't HAVE to show up to defend. They aren't going to lose land, or face disbandment. There's no real consequences for raids like there are for sieges. We don't even allow DMs during them (unless both players really, really want to for plotsies) and ownership challenge rules remain the same (which is to say, only tiers 1 and 2 can do it) so the risks are small even when a pack does answer.

There will always be negative responses when it comes to new ideas. But, if were going to get rid of all ideas that have a negative opinion lets face it, ala will be boring.  And personally, i think more people will leave ala with lack of muse then with fights. Raids will bring in more fun to ala [in my opinion] since even if you lose some supplies, there's no reason why a pack can't hunt again for another kill or go searching for plants and what not. I understand some people aren't comfortable with fighting, which is why you can simply not participate in the raid if it makes you uncomfortable. I love seeing things get dramatic incly, since it's the whole reason i roleplay. Whats the point in just having wolves say 'hi' and that's it? 

Also, when becoming an alpha you should take into consideration that as an alpha, you should expect to see challenges and fight, and by becoming an alpha, i think personally the roleplayer accepts the fact they will need to fight for their cause and their whole pack. We say it's not fair for people with alphas to get trespassers and raids, but we can also argue that it's not fair for the roleplayers who wish to tresspass and do raids not to. So basically, Roleplay is not fair as a whole, but we all just need to accept that. 

BUT, if it seems like the alpha is being targeted purposely to fail, im sure the staff team will get involved.

So yeah anyway, i think Raids will benefit ala, as i said before there will always be negative responses. Also, to those who do not feel comfortable with fighting, you may always ask the trained judges for tips which is a great way to improve, as i'm also more then happy to help.

QUESTIONS:
-  when people participate in raids will they have to know they are liable to maims, claims and whatnot? 
- If the pack loses a raid, will they have to hunt after a certain amount of days to stay healthy? or will their be a penalty?

Yes, participating in a raid will mean that there is a chance of maims or claim challenges, just like in any interaction. I mean look at Syrinx vs Isardis - just showing up to watch the DM meant you might end up in a maim challenge! But DMs are not allowed (except if requested by both players for plot purposes) so the risks are fairly small. There are no real penalties to the losing side except any wounds acquired if they participated. Packs are not required to "discover" the raiders at all.

If there are no real consequences for raids like sieges... what's the point of them?

Maybe it's just me, but the raid idea just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like I've read this several times and I still can't find the point of the raids?

I like the points on healing and hunting, but honestly this raid stuff is not making any sense to me.

Raids are meant to have IC, rather than OOC, impetus. The pack is on the only lands where a certain herb grows - do you ask them nicely for some or do you raid them? You don't like a pack and want to show them this but don't want to go through the trouble of a siege - do you sit and growl at them from a distance or do you do a raid and steal a hunt in their territory? If you absolutely need an OOC reason consider them practice sieges. They are meant to give people a taste of a siege in a faster, less stressful, less insane setting.

In addition: we have considered additional, more tangible rewards for successfully raiding a pack - ie, increased fertility for a time for the raiders, possible increase of pack limit for packs, that sort of thing, maybe even gems though we prefer to keep the rewards as IC as possible, and can continue to consider these if they are of interest.

I feel as if there should be a temporary member limit decrease for raids. For example, if Regium raided Ebony and stole food, then Ebony could only have x amount of wolves for x amount of time because they have less food and cannot support the same amount of wolves until they get their stuff back up. That being said, it could be they have a x member decrease until they successfully complete a pack hunt or something to push hunting to make up for it and pack bonding? Just an idea...

This idea will be taken into consideration but as they are right now raids are a compromise between people who want to fight and people who don't and imposing bigger consequences for losing a raid will make them too much like sieges - and since a raid can take place every two weeks it would be easy for those consequences to add up and destroy a pack. We don't intend for this to force people to fight but rather to add another facet to the fight system we already have.

just deleting this because i don't even care anymore -skips away-

I'm liking all of the ideas listed in the original posts! It is all too easy to create a Mary Sue character who is a brilliant herbalist, a fierce warrior, whatever, and play them like they're the cat's meow... until push comes to shove and you can't deliver. In reference to healing and hunting, I feel as though this system will give people a goal, something to work towards. Not to mention, incentive to keep their characters around instead of making and dropping them like hot potatoes.

As for the raids, I don't understand what the big deal is. If you don't like to fight, don't participate in a raid. If you feel you are not a good enough fighter, practice. It is hard, but it's hard for a reason. If you don't have to work to progress your character's standing or ability, THAT'S unfair. If you want a BA character, ambition comes with consequence. Personally, I average a solid 60/100 in my fights. I'm hardly a pro, but I recognize that if I want to be able to tangle with the big boys, it's not going to be handed to me. It SHOULDN'T be handed to me. REGARDLESS, raids will add flavor and intrigue that Ala is needing, options for those who enjoy this sort of thing. If you don't like it, don't do it.

I love it all! Every last bit.  Fox did a fabulous job of arguing for these new features and I completely agree with her on every point she made. -grabby hands- I want these NOW!!