OOC: This is a rushed meeting! Posts are due on the 17th. I'll post on the 18th. There is no post order and if you wanna debate, feel free to post as many responses as you like. Anyone not posted by the end of the 17th will not be penalized, they just won't be able to give their input.

Sparrow pulled herself farther into the pack. She found a makeshift meeting spot, far enough from the borders that no wandering Abraxas could overhear. It was getting late now. The hours were ticking down. There was no telling, but they could be surrounded. Had Malleus really come alone or were there others surrounding the pack, ready to make sure no one left?

Gods, how was she going to do this? There was going to be an uproar, she knew it. They didn't have the time to have a full meeting. Sparrow would just have to call and see who could show up in time.

Sparrow let out a howl and waited for a response. When others had showed up, Sparrow announced the news.

"The Abraxas have turned their sights onto us now," she said as calmly as she could manage. "I was made an offer of sorts. I could- and will if so decided- fight him in a challenge. If I win, they leave us alone for a time. If I lose, they win Abaven."

Sparrow looked around to judge any reactions before going on. She sucked in a breath and let it loose.

"The offer is that they, instead he promised no harm will come to you," Sparrow said, a very serious look on her face. "Some of their members would live in Abaven, but they will be 'unobtrusive and under strict orders to be professional.' Abaven would act as an outpost, but we would be free to continue otherwise unchanged. That is the offer."

Sparrow let the situation sink in for a moment.

"We know the Abraxas have already taken down two packs. In the past, there have been some decisions made that were the alpha's alone to make. This is not one of those times. I would like us to decide what to do together and I will take full responsibility for your actions."

There was something else that needed considering. Abaven had pups in the pack still.

"However, if anyone tries to leave before I talk to Malleus tomorrow, all deals on safety are off. I don't know to what extent that threat lies, but I ask that you all stick with me until I meet with him again."

With that out of the way, Sparrow sat, "I want you to speak your minds fully. This is a tough decision for all of us, so be thorough and be considerate to one another. Once we've discussed, we'll make the final decision together and I will notify the Abraxas of our decision."

Lillianna heard a call from Sparrow - and it didn't seem to be the normal type of call at all. In fact, it seemed to be the exact opposite. She glanced at her children, glanced at Lark, and then motioned for all of them to go - they might as well. The pups would enjoy the run over to the meeting place, and could use some energy, and they could see what was going on.

Turns out, she was the first to arrive. How odd; that never happened. Either way, she waited, and waited for the news - and the news was not good. Her ears flattened quickly. "So basically, we be an off shoot of their pack, or you fight. And if you fight - only for a time? How long is this time? Did he specify? What does this... pack value? Do you happen to know? Because depending on what they value it may be better to not agree. I, and I think everyone in Abaven would agree, would rather this pack not turn into an outpost for slavery and other such unsavory acts." She paused briefly, before looking down at Aiden. "I think, even if there was though, I'd rather not risk my children not having a home." The last was spoken softly, probably quiet enough that Sparrow barely heard - but loud enough it was.

Brandr dismally followed Sparrow, hurt and feeling like he'd let her down. He'd told her he wasn't high ranking material when she'd wanted to promote him. He was a hunter, pure and simple. He just wanted to care and provide for the members of the pack. He could also feel the anger stirring in his gut over everything. He just hoped the others would have more ideas. He ran through his own, knowing he'd need to repeat them at the meeting. He wasn't quite sure why Sparrow had come to him first instead of just calling the group. Had she expected him to have some miracle answer that would make the Abraxas threat just go away? She howled and Brandr took his place, listening absently. He'd already been told the news and already knew his feelings. If anyone tried to leave the deal was off and that only secured his feelings that there was no 'choice'. The deal was an illusion and only that. They were fencing Abaven in on purpose to force them to do exactly what they wanted. And the Abraxas moving in and being 'unobtrusive' was nothing more to Brandr than a form of faux freedom. He nodded as Lilliana spoke her reservations about Abaven becoming an outpost. Though he also understood her concerns about not having a home for her children. They really were caught between a rock and a hard place. Brandr stood. "I've already told Sparrow my feelings but I'll repeat them here. I admit that I don't have an easy answer.  Everything seems to do nothing but bide us a little more time.  I don't believe that the Abraxas will keep their word. They may leave us alone for a time but we have no idea how much time we'd be given. They view themselves as gods and us as nothing more than the dirt beneath their paws. Because of this we will always be on unequal footing and vulnerable to their whims." He sighed, closing his eyes for a moment. He refused to be a puppet of the Abraxas. He would not be subservient to the Abraxas out of fear. "I feel it would be a false form of freedom and I don't think I could live being complicit in their crimes and stand by while they use Abaven as an outpost to spread their bloody dogma." He gazed at his fellow packmates sorrowfully before turning to Sparrow. "It does seem like the Abraxas seek to disband and subdue packs through challenges but I believe in you and your skills. If anything they will likely under-estimate you but again I suppose we'd just be biding time. Even if you were to win they'd likely try again but at least we could live under the rule of someone we know and trust."  If she lost the pack would disband. The others, including Sparrow herself, might find that unthinkable but Brandr had lived through a pack torn apart by violence once, he could do it again. They could always set up roots elsewhere or become nomadic… of course Sparrow had voiced her sentiment against this idea but Brandr thought he might as well share. "I know this wasn't a popular idea but we could give up these lands to the Abraxas and become a nomadic pack. To me it is not the same a disbandment." This was the way his ancestors used to live and he felt hurt that Sparrow had found the idea so ghastly but he tried to bear any harsh feelings toward her about it. There were bound to be cultural differences and there were more important things to a pack than land in his mind. he felt he could at least share. "The Abraxas seem to be focused on control of the land. They drove out the members of previous packs to subvert the land to their own benefit. I know it is not an easy life to adjust to but I'm familiar with following herd migrations.  I'm afraid that's all I have as far as ideas. I did talk a bit with Iskra and Regulus of Celestial about forming an alliance with other packs in defense against the Abraxas. It is possible that we would be welcomed into one of these in the event of disbandment." He glanced at Sparrow. "Under this deal would we be allowed to leave Abaven as we saw fit or will they be tailing us anywhere we go? You mentioned to me about working on the inside. I agree that we could fall under this deal for a time and use the opportunity to spy on the Abraxas and whisk information off to allies but it would be highly dangerous." His thoughts drifted to the youngest of the pack. Personally, he did not want them involved in such risky endeavors. And if they weren't allowed to leave their packlands and would be tailed everywhere it was only further proof that they'd be nothing more than glorified prisoners. He also wasn't sure he'd be a very good spy and that sooner or later the Abraxas would grow wise. Surely the Abraxas had considered this possibility? "Talk" "You" Think

It'd been awhile since he'd really spoken to Sparrow. Lark was sure beyond a reasonable doubt that she didn't approve of he and Lillianna's relationship, nor of the fact that they'd had kids, but he was far too busy worrying about them to spend much time dwelling on it. Maybe he should face it, but things weren't always as easy as they seemed, so he would conveniently avoid the topic - and instead, he felt a jolt of worry strike right through him when he heard Sparrow's uneasy call. He followed after Lillie and their kids, keeping them in line while she ran ahead of the group. Being a father had quite easily consumed his life whole; he didn't regret it in the least, but to say it was more than he had expected.. well, that would be an understatement. By the time he arrived, he settled in next to his mate and tried to keep their three kids from wandering off to much. They were growing rapidly, but that wouldn't stop Lark from worrying over them and trying to keep them in line regardless. Even now he found himself having to stand and drag Corvus back to his side by the scruff as he watched the oversized boy catch sight of something and start to wander off. It wasn't long, luckily, before others arrived and Sparrow started to speak. His brows instantly furrowed at her words. In what world would any of them take that kind of offer instead of stand and fight? What would his father have done? He shook his head, wondering why it even mattered anymore what Bass would've done. He was gone now, permanently gone, and not coming back - so Lark knew he shouldn't even consider what his view would've been. Maybe he only thought of that because now.. well, his younger self would've been angry at the mere thought of giving in to their bargain instead of fighting for their home. But he was a father now, and even though he quietly bristled at the thought, he was silent for a long while too. Perhaps he just wondered what his own father would've done, for his children, not just his pack. His children meant more to him than Abaven's traditions or names, and while he was proud of his sister for taking over leadership, he wouldn't risk the life of Corvus or Rhea or Aiden over her maintaining it. Would continuing life as they always had be such a bad idea? Especially since this was over a family who had a history of destroying other packs. Lark frowned, his expression softening as Lillie spoke up. Her questions were basically the same ones she had, but he had to agree. At the end of the day, he wasn't comfortable knowing that if Sparrow tried to fight this Abraxas and she lost, that they might turn into slaves - or worse. And if they tried to flee? Who knew what kind of outcome that could lead to. He grit his teeth before speaking up.  "I'd have to agree with Lillie," Lark said, somewhat dejectedly, almost hating himself for not even musing over whether fighting for their home was a possibility. "It's not a fight I'm willing to risk." Becoming a father truly had changed him, hadn't it? He hadn't realized it completely until now. Brandr had similar questions, important ones, and his ears swiveled as he listened to Abaven's lead hunter quietly before turning questioning eyes back to Sparrow.

OOC: This is just discussion, not my decision post. Anyone coming in after these posts but before the 18th can totally pretend they heard everything that's already been said. I hope that will simplify this rather intimidating thread!

Lillianna, Lark, and their pups were the first to show up, surprisingly. Sparrow heard Lillianna out. Though she had no standing as the omega, she was still- somehow- a member of the pack. For a time like this, Sparrow felt as if she had to at least give her that decency.

Lark seconded Lillianna and Sparrow gave him a soft, almost pitying expression. They both had changed so much. Nearly swapped. The last time Abaven had faced a threat like this, he was aching to fight while Sparrow voiced her support of anything but. Now, she stood as the alpha and he stood by his mate, fostering a family and considering a peaceful option to protect them. They had almost stolen each other's dreams, hadn't they?

Brandr followed behind and restated his opinion. He was always a good and loyal man and Sparrow owed him a great deal. She let him speak freely before addressed the group again.

"I don't think they would wait long between challenges if I were to fight them. They seem to have a knack for that. As Caelum has told me, their takeover was not peaceful at all. Members of the Abraxas family raided their pack while the challenge went on. Their alpha did not live past the challenge."

Sparrow looked around. She didn't want to give anyone false fear, but she wanted them to understand the Abraxas family as well as they could.

"The Talis takeover was more peaceful. That alpha had met the Abraxas before. No deals were sought between them, but the claiming was held officially and honorably. With these two outcomes, I am tempted to believe they would remain peaceful if we... agreed to their conditions."

As for their conditions, "Malleus Abraxas promised he would not harm any of our members. We would- at the very least- be safe and be able to keep our homes." Sparrow looked at Lillianna and Lark. They had pups- Destruction pups- in the pack.

"Whether or not they keep slaves is still a mystery. Even Imperium kept slaves and they were our allies. From what was spoken, Abaven would stay as-is, only hosting some members. Perhaps they would need healing occasionally or a place to rest, but he assured our safety and that any of his members in our pack would be unobtrusive. If what Talis's old alpha said is true, the Abraxas are many, but they are tight-knit with a structured order. They have no problems gaining support, but they seem to have a strict structure."

Brandr brought up the traveling pack again. This time- for his benefit- Sparrow nodded.

"That is a possibility, but... It's not one I would lead. It is, however, an opportunity for someone else who would like to lead that type of pack if the pack agreed to that."

Then Brandr brought up the spies. Sparrow smiled just slightly at his words.

"I think Brandr is right. These wolves believe themselves to be gods. I think it is likely they would underestimate us. We may get an inside view to their inner workings. Malleus said we could continue our lives as Abaven always has. I do not think they fear us- even if we did talk to other packs."

Sparrow sighed, "Whatever we decide, the other packs are targets too. We can run, but they only seem to follow. I'm sure Caelum's family could tell you that. If we stay here, we stay safe and perhaps gain the chance to help the other packs left. If we don't... I will still follow that to whatever ends I need to to ensure as many of you stay safe as I can."

Hearing the urgent - and highly unexpected - call caused the older woman some concern. Dropping the hare she'd been eating, Caelum went to meet it. For a time Caelum sat at the edge of the space, almost out of sight though not because she was hiding. She simply stopped moving when Sparrow began her announcement. The Abraxas... they were really here already? Her legs, when did they begin shaking? For a time she remained silent and watched the others tossing out their thoughts. Stay, fight, leave, no can't leave. Finally Caelum shook her head and moved to walk into the heart of the gathering as Sparrow finished speaking, dark brows deeply furrowed. Her ears fell flat for a moment as she collected her thoughts, blue gaze cold and hard as she took a steadying breath. This was not what she'd hoped for. Originally, she held onto hope that Abaven might rally before something happened, that they might have a better response to Zeph's fight training and be ready to defend their home when a threat was present. They were not ready. They were not fighters, not from what she had seen, and what they were saying now. Of course, Caelum had had her home ripped from her twice now, and the first instance had been so much more violent. This was nothing, not for someone like her, and it pained her to see how the reactions played out. She never thought of herself as terribly strong or feisty, but she surely had more fighting spirit than this. Even as a frail old woman and a mother. Glancing at the others she shrugged before letting out a breath and putting her two cents in, "It's a difficult decision. They seek to spread their influence and their beliefs through conquest - they are awful creatures." she spat, muzzle wrinkling in an expression that bordered closely on a snarl. Sure, she was scared like the rest, but also filled with righteous fury at the very idea of a third home lost. "I am tired of running, though I can't fault those who might wish to for thinking of the well being of loved ones. This would be the third home me and Zephyr will have lost if that is what happens. I'm no stranger to loss in several of its forms." She glanced over to Sparrow, studying the smaller woman for a long moment, head canted and eyes narrowing just a fraction, "It sounds to me like you are also disinclined to fight. Am I correct? I'd not think less of you for it, however, I am not a fan of acquiescing to the demands of what I see as evil." A heavy sigh fell from her lips. To let these monsters back them into a corner seemed unthinkable. The ghost of her younger self fought against the very thought. Back then, she'd always been one to choose fight rather than flight. "My vote is fight, whether or not I'm in the minority. Be it via insurgency under their noses, or a more obvious resistance to this pseudo-offer matters not." "Speak"

Corentine had been hunting for a change, breaking from tending to her storage dens. Since Brandr had told her the news of Dauntless she had been in a bit of a funk, worrying over her mother and of Ty. She didn't let it bring her down enough to slack on her duties. She had withdrawn slightly from the others in the pack, trying to sort out her own emotions. The call from Sparrow came when she had just made her kill, her ears perking as her prey grew lifeless in her jaws. It was an urgent call to, which made her worry. What was wrong? Why was she so urgent? Her brows furrowed in worry as she picked up her kill and quickly headed off in the direction. She she got closer she slowed down her ears picking up on the announcement which made her stop in her tracks. Her heart began to race as the fear of loosing her home began to grow within her mind. It had already been fueled by her depression of what happened to Dauntless and now this just escalated. She dropped her kill unsure whether she wanted to join the meeting or not, and for the longest while she stood there just listening in on the comments made by the others. When Brandr began to speak her heart skipped a beat, what if she lost him? She felt ill just even thinking about it. He had been the only wolf she felt extremely close to. To loose him would devastate her and she wouldn't know what to do with herself. Ears folded back as she listened to what he had to say, the nomadic pack idea was something her family had done for centuries, but she knew some where not up to that and that lifestyle was a lot trickier. She remembered the stories her mother told her of when she was a pup. Then talk of fighting back was tossed around and she felt her heart ache again. She didn't know how to fight vary well and she doubted she could handle fighting another wolf. She was conflicted as to what input she could give. All she knew is she couldn't loose Brandr, maybe she was being selfish, but she couldn't help it. She sighed before stepping over her kill and closing the distance, joining the pack and going straight over to Brandr. She gently attempted to nudge him in the shoulder seeking some sort of assurance or comfort because she didn't know what to say. Her gold eyes looked to Sparrow uncertainty in her eyes. "I do not want to give into them, because they do not sound vary trusting, but honestly I don't think I personally couldn't fight vary well. If we had more numbers, more wolves who were experienced in fighting I do believe we could do it, but if these wolves come in vast numbers, there would be no way we could take them on," she stated. She didn't disagree with Caelum, but she just knew she couldn't fight well. The three pups couldn't fight and someone had to stay with them and defend them. Sparrow, Zeph, Cealum, and lark could, but somehow she didn't feel the rest of the pack could fight vary well. "At this point i don't know what would be better, if we give them our land then they are winning, if we let them have a few live here as an outpost they are winning, either option seems like these wolves are winning. Though if we Do give them our land I think we should stick together, living with unclaimed territory is better to do in numbers, it's how my ancestors have lived for centuries." she added. Her input probably didn't help, but really she didn't know what else to say. She was scared and to young to know what was the right thing to do. "Talk" "You" Think

She was returning from another series of adventures when she heard the howl - damn her timing was always so spot on it was uncanny. Running as quickly as she could - which was pretty dang quick with legs that long - Caelestis went to see what the summons was all about. Hopefully nothing too bad, but from the sound of it... she didn't have high hopes. Caelestis entered a little later than the rest, but not late enough to miss much of importance. What she didn't hear from Sparrow she gathered from the others words. Caelestis looked around in dismay, her eyes wide and expression filled with concern. They couldn't lose Abaven to those wolves, not after her first home was taken by them! The name Malleus had her looking at Sparrow in shock. So, he was the one who was issuing the ultimatum. Come peacefully, or be taken by force. That wasn't a choice, no, Sparrow, no. Seeing her mother step up and give her thoughts steadied the girl's nerves a bit. Her mom wasn't keen on giving in. No one was, but they also didn't wanna fight and Caelestis didn't get it. She wasn't a good fighter either, but she also wasn't about to let someone take her home! The feeling of tears pricking at the corners of her eyes was frustrating, though try as she might to hold them back Caelestis couldn't stop a few from falling against her will. Fear, anger, sadness, confusion. So many emotions were swirling through her, settling eventually with the weight of a large stone in the pit of her stomach. "We can't just have one plan!" she mumbled, possibly heard only by those standing closest to her and definitely not loud enough for Sparrow to hear. Thinking quickly, she lifted her head and glanced around at those around her, seeing the many faces and expressions, the different reactions and lack of energy. They'd lose in any fight with such defeated attitudes, that much was certain. "We could have more than one plan!" the girl said, louder this time. "Who even knows if they still have enough members to hurt us for real. We don't even know if we're really surrounded, do we? All we know is what the guy says but everyone's all scared. Just casue they're big and bad doesn't mean they can't be dirty liars trying to make us think we're outnumbered when we aren't. Shouldn't we figure out if he really has backup? If he doesn't, we could get another packs help before he has reinforcements, maybe. Or... we could make Abaven unreachable for a time? Or, leave, but destroy the land if they'll just come after it. They want the land, but what if it's unusable? We could relocate while they..." How would they destroy it and distract the enemies? Wait, what about... "Watch it burn! If nobody wants to fight, and giving in to them and living with them isn't good either, we could make him leave, and set it on fire, and escape. They'd be busy watching everything burn while we find new lands far, far away. Maybe? And if we don't stay a real pack, we could do Corentine and Brandr's stuff. Live somewhere unofficially? Help each other. I don't wanna leave it to the Abraxas though. They're- they're... evil. If no one else wants to, I'll do it. I'd rather destroy what they want them let them destroy things." "And don't think I won't burn it all." "I will, every blade of grass they try to take." Caelestis eyed the group, unsure how the idea would be taken but intent on not letting the enemy win. Even if she had to take things into her own paws after the fact, she'd do it. The girl was a fighter, not fighting in some way was unthinkable. The other reactions were utterly disappointing but she'd more than make up for their lack of enthusiasm with her own if that's what she had to do. Walk. "Speak!" "Think."

What Kassander heard when he answered Sparrow's urgent call was troubling. He sat back on the outskirts of the group and simply listened, growing more and more worried. He'd just finally settled here, after losing so much he had been beginning to be happy again. He'd gotten back to innovating in healing instead of just crafting alcohol for his packmates to use and trade, he was finally feeling useful again instead of just being used. Now Sparrow was talking about turning the pack over to another group who would be doing just that again, only worse.

Finally he spoke up, his graying muzzle turned towards Brandr. "Brandr, you say that they want to subvert the land for their own use, that giving up the lands and going nomadic would stop them from seeking us out. But they didn't stay on Dragoste's old lands. Those were here in Boreas - the Abraxas have been in Auster for as long as we've known about them, haven't we? So they didn't choose to attack Dragoste for their lands. Leaving here might not be enough to satisfy them. And... if they felt their own members were untrustworthy enough that they needed to assure us that their members would be ordered to behave themselves, we ought to consider that they may not be trustworthy enough to keep their promises."

He sighed, and shuffled his paws. "I don't know what we should do. I don't think we should expect you to fight for us though, Sparrow, I know that much. I just know that... I was happy here, and I didn't want that to change. Maybe... maybe if we sent an emissary to talk with them we could make them see that they don't have to do this We could make them understand that..."

His stomach twisted violently at the other option, something he thought he would never, ever have suggested again, but he steeled himself and opened his mouth again. "Or we could gather our allies and lay siege to them. Abaven has done it before, and when I led Ebony we laid siege to a larger and stronger pack, and came through victorious. It is a possibility if all else fails. Otherwise, are we not simply giving them a base to continue to do this to other packs? Our allies? Our friends? Family?"

He gulped quietly to himself, then continued. "If the decision is made to turn the pack over to them, I will remain here as long as there are any other Abaven wolves still here. I won't leave any of our pack alone with their necks under the the Abraxas paws."

She had only just the afternoon before now finished burying her mother in the shade of one of the few willow trees far enough back from the river not to risk the grave being disturbed by erosion from floods. It had been far more emotionally draining than the young woman had thought, though she'd been preparing herself mentally for that day for months. Turns out, no matter how ready you think you are, losing a beloved parent is still crushing. She hadn't felt up to facing any of her new-found relatives yet to tell them of their aunt's passing.

But when Sparrow's urgent call reached her, she couldn't ignore it. She was part of the pack now, so grief or no, she needed to do what had to be done. Drying her eyes of tears the girl trotted out to join the strangers gathered around Sparrow.

What she heard made her put aside her grief in shock.

She listened in growing disbelief at the discourse between the pack members before an opening to speak finally opened up and she burst out with, "We need to fight, of course! They can't just take away our pack and expect us to just fall in line with it. And why should you have to fight for us? I'm not afraid to fight them." She drew herself up, those bi-colored eyes fierce in a way that the matching ones her mother had borne never had been. "I don't care how big these monsters are, they aren't too big that we can't take them down." One of the older wolves had spoken of taking them down from the inside, and the idea appealed to the youth as it had to many, many generations of youths before. Revolution often did stir the passions of young people into flame.

She raised her head high to gaze around at the other strangers. "If you don't want to fight them head on, then at least don't just run away! Bullies don't stop just because they have what they wanted. They'll just keep taking! And if they know they can get you to give up to them then they'll find you and keep taking from you. But if you're all really for giving up Abaven without a fight I say we make them choke on it. Make them so miserable here that they regret ever even considering taking my mother's home, my uncle's legacy, away from us. I'll fight." She nodded, fiercely and firmly, to Caelum.

ooc:  Posting again, I apologize if I'm butting in front of anyone. Just trying to see if I can work out IC what Brandr would want to do for the poll.

Brandr resisted the urge to shudder at the mention of the Talis takeover. Sure, it may have seemed peaceful but Sparrow hadn't met the youth that had taken over, she hadn't stared him down on the edge of the Abraxas territory.  Even though he'd been younger every word made Brandr feel like a child. The underlying danger slithering out between the man's words was enough to make his skin crawl. They'd be safe if the Abraxas took over? Brandr silently shook his head. Nonsense. Had she really been so easily swayed by some nice words?  Sure they'd be safe, but for how long? A day? A week? A year if they were lucky? And at what cost to those around them to be an accessory to the Abraxas' conquest? He could already feel the shame. Brandr was willing to lead a nomadic pack but it didn't seem to be of much interest to the rest of his packmates. He could understand. He was raised with different ideals and while the land a pack resided in was important in terms of food and stability, the safety and close-knit nature of the wolves was what made a pack in his mind. He'd been hoping to offer a solution to this situation without anyone having to spill blood. His gaze drifted to Corentine as she nudged his shoulder. He shifted his weight just slightly toward her wishing to press his shoulder into hers, to feel her near him in the hopes that perhaps she could steady is rapidly beating heart. He hated the thought of risking her safety. They could very well be tortured, raped or killed for trying to stand up to the Abraxas. The decision to fight could not be taken lightly, but that didn't mean he was going to be a meek little sheep and stay put waiting for slaughter. He couldn't help but smile softly though at Corentine's words about her own ancestors having lived as a nomadic pack for centuries. It seemed they had something else to talk about. He was glad he was not alone but he could see that this solution was not for Abaven. It was just to different culturally from the values of his pack mates. If the wolves of Abaven felt that the pack as it was now was worth dying for then he would aid them. When Caelestis spoke Brandr felt himself smiling at her spirit but he winced at the mention of burning the land. He had know knowledge of fire save a lucky lightning strike. Not to mention it seemed a truly desperate act but he appreciated her spunk none-the-less. When Kassander spoke, Brandr spoke up as well. "My apologies Kassander, I realize I wasn't clear. When I said subvert the land I meant on a grander scale in a more spiritual sense. As part of their 'holy' conquest, not that they are attacking us for our specific territories. They seem intent on conquering or scattering rooted-down packs comprised of those they deem as 'mortals'." He snorted at the ridiculousness of the Abraxas' delusion. Though he had not heard of any loners being specifically targeted, nor nomadic groups. It seemed as if they just wanted to dissolve all other packs that weren't some how connected to their god. Brandr found himself smiling again as another youth spoke up, every bit as fiery as Caelestis. They were truly remarkable in their spirit. If these were the youths of Abaven then Brandr almost felt a sting of pity for the Abraxas when these young wolves reached adulthood. He continued to struggle to sum up his thoughts and it wasn't going as he'd hoped so he started to speak, hoping everything would fall into place. "I think what it boils down to for me is I don't want to just roll over onto my back and give into their demands so that I can pretend everything is just fine and the same as it always was."  He couldn't stand the thought of Abaven becoming a den of wickedness or a compliant doormat while it's members just lived in the delusion that they were perfectly safe and no one else was getting hurt. "If the Abraxas move in we need to utilize the opportunity to subvert them as much as possible. We need to ensure, before agreeing to this, that we will be allowed to travel in and out of the packlands as we wish and that we won't be tailed.  Of course, we have no guarantee the Abraxas will adhere to this so we'll need to be vigilant." He listened as Sparrow spoke but found himself shaking his head. "I disagree though, I do not think they'll underestimate us. In fact they may expect this. They've proven skilled conquerors already and if we underestimate them we'll be the ones in serious trouble. I volunteer to ferry out information to the other packs." If this was the route they wanted to go they needed to work out a strategy quickly before the Abraxas overlords arrived. Brandr had no intent of making things easy for them. "Regardless, we'll need to consider a more permanent solution before another pack is targeted and if the rest of Abaven prefers to rally and engage in outright warfare you will have my jaws. I'll rip as many throats as I can." The words were out of his mouth before Brandr could stop them as it suddenly dawned on him that regardless, there was going to be a fight. If not now then later. One way or another they were going to wind up going head to head with the Abraxas if they chose not to fall in line.  "If all else fails and we must retreat to the wilds for a time. I am willing to lead a temporary nomadic band until we can get back on our feet." "Talk" "You" Think

Zephyr couldn't help but feel a bit of fear creep up into his throat, remarkably similar to the feeling of burning bile, at Sparrow's anxious call. By the time he had arrived, most were already there, including his mate and daughter - and he moved to sit beside them with ease. Once they were all here, Sparrow began to speak, quickly spelling out what deal she had been given. Zephyr felt his stomach turn with discomfort. This.. was precisely what he had hoped to avoid by coming to Abaven. His nose would wrinkle, ears flattening on his skull as he took in the reality of what was happening. Would he let his entire life consist of running from those he feared would ruin him? No, he was tired of running, and he had already told Caelum he would only run if it was his only option. But this time, they had options, none of which seemed all that great. Zephyr sighed as his mate began to speak, stressing that she too was fed up with running from those who dared threaten them. Zephyr would nod in agreement, quiet at first as he processed his thoughts. "My family came here to escape the Abraxas once. I managed to talk my way out of a fight; one of them may have tried to claim me if he didn't see me as too old to be useful. But.." He shifted his weight, thinking quietly. "I, too, am unwilling to step aside and let them rule our lives. I will gladly fight for my family's freedom if I must." He was conflicted about it all, and he frowned at Caelestis's eager suggestion. She sounded more grown than he remembered, and even in all her naivety, there was a snippet of wisdom that surprised him. At the end of it all, though, he'd follow the lead of his mate and daughter - their happiness meant far more than his own and he would do what he had to protect them, regardless of what would be best for Abaven as a whole.

OOC votes:

• Lark: Does not want to fight
  Lillianna: Does not want to fight || Weaken from inside
  Corentine: Rally with other packs || Form band
  Brandr: Fine with not fighting as long as freedom is granted || Unite and fight || Form band
  Caelum: Fight
  Caelestis: Fight
  Arpeggio: Fight
  

Considerations:
It seems mostly the yearlings and elders want to fight, but they are also yearlings and elders.
The pack must protect the pups.

IC:

Sparrow listened thoughtfully to the rest of her pack spoke. Caelum asked about her reservations in fighting. "I do not fear fighting," Sparrow said, looking over her pack, "I fear that my inabilities may negatively impact all of you. When I took the position of alpha, I took on the responsibility of knowing my own strengths and weaknesses and how to keep them from hurting the pack."

Corentine seconded Brandr. Sparrow simply nodded.

Caelestis went on a small rambling about fighting, saying the Abraxas might not be as powerful as they claim. Sparrow shook her head gently. More than one alpha had told her of their power. They had taken down two packs and claimed Auster as their own. Even Dragon spoke of their numbers.

Then Corentine said they could burn the pack.

"We will NOT burn these lands," Sparrow said, her voice raising at Caelestis for the first time. She caught herself and lowered her voice.

"We don't have any fire and we cant conjure a storm in hopes of lightening striking a dry patch. They don't care about the land. They could have all the land in the world. It's a claim thing."

Sparrow thought about having the pack escape as a band. She could hold off Malleus for a while, probably. Make him think things are going okay, but when he inevitably found out, what would happen to her? Would he kill her? Capture her? Worse? Sparrow wouldn't chance it. She had some nightshade that she had collected since visiting the volcano. She could take it before meeting with him so that when things went south... she wouldn't have to suffer through it.

Kassander voiced in support for fighting even in the case of a siege. Sparrow couldn't help but shiver. Kassander did say he would stay if other stayed, though.

Her new cousin Arpeggio voiced in for fighting as a front. She also suggested making the Abraxas choke on their decision. Sparrow chuckled lightly. She liked that idea.

Once more, Brandr spoke about the possibilities. Sparrow nodded along.

Zephyr spoke about his family and how he would be glad to fight.

After Zephyr, a hush fell over the group. Tension hung thick in the air. Sparrow stayed silent for a while as she processed the information.

"I think," she said eventually, looking to Lark. "We should fight them from the inside. For the safety of our members, it might be best to let them have their little takeover as long as we still have our freedom." Sparrow looked at Brandr at that point for confirmation of some sort.

"We can consult the other packs when things have settled," Sparrow said, hey eyes gliding to Corentine. "I have no doubt that the Abraxas may soon be after them and I think it may take a joint effort to take them down."

Sparrow looked towards Caelum, Caelestis, and Zephyr.

"We will fight. I will need someone to help us ready ourselves for that, however I understand if you feel you need to leave. I can't say any other pack is safer, nor being a loner in these times, but that is solely up to you and your family."

Lastly, Sparrow looked at Arpeggio, "We'll let them think they've gotten a nice meal, but then they will choke."

Sparrow looked to the group, "For those that are readily willing to fight, I apologize. If you are truly eager to be in the forefront of this fight, we will certainly need members to take initiative. I can't promise it won't be risky at times if you choose to be a leading aid in our efforts, but I also couldn't have promised your safety in battle."

Sparrow thought for a moment before continuing.

"I will rework the ranks soon to allow for members to have the freedom to gather intel and spread the word to other packs. Training is a must. Find sparring partners. We must learn to fight."

Lastly, Sparrow took a deep and shaky breath, "For any of you that wish to flee, I simply ask that you wait until my meeting with Malleus. After that, I will dismiss you properly. Thank you all for your prompt response and thoughtful input. That is all for now."

Sparrow bowed her head to her pack and waited for any last-minute questions before heading to talk to the Abraxas' alpha.