are you guys happy with the way we judge things on alacritis? Do we need to change it? Would you like to suggest another method?



-I am changing this much about the judging, we will only judge upon request, otherwise, it is up to you to decide the outcome of a fight.-




Count for keeping :1


Count for changing :

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Suggestions made:

From what I've seen of the judging system it's pretty fair, thoughrogh and simple in comparison to other sites with more complicated factors. As long as judging doesn't fall on one person alone I don't see why it should be tossed.

On that note I still would like to be a judge, but I think a few people are waiting on fights to judge so thy they can try out and all of that.

So we do like this little system then? Do you guys think there should be more incorporation of size of the wolf? I know another system, but I would have to ask her if she would let us use it for an example....hm.....I really could use some more feedback guys! xD



On that note...I'll track here who all is needing training to become a judge:
Name//Status

Andy//Almost done, she needs some minor changes and then needs to judge one fight by herself.

Frayer//Getting there, mostly need to work on making sure attacks from both parties get the same if they are fighting. Needs to judge by self.

DIONE//Is on hold.

Serenity//Wants to judge.//Lutara is now training.

NAME//STATUS

NAME//STATUS

NAME//STATUS

Although taking size into account for fights would be more realistic, the problem is that it would be less fair, and eventually every wolf will be a 42" monster just so they can be able to compete in fights and players won't be able to have a wolf the size they want.

Our judging system now puts some weight into the player's writing skill with the Clarity category, I think, which makes it difficult for a less skilled writer to compete even if they're using a good strategy, so maybe weight could be taken away from writing skill, or maybe a less skilled writer could be given a handicap in fights so that they could win against a skilled writer so long as their strategy matches or exceeds the opponent's. But then again, this would discourage the players improving their skills...

The only problem I've had with the judging I've seen is with how the defenses are graded. I understand if someone didn't flesh the defenses out enough, but I've seen where players have been deducted for making a risky move or putting their wolves into a vulnerable position. I don't know about anyone use, but I've done this server times on purpose because I understand what position I'm getting her into. I also understand that Jupiter is not perfect and will make mistakes that may or will put her into these positions. Also; risky attacks shouldn't be a cause for score deduction. Again, most of us understand that our wolf may be exposing themselves. If a battle was made up solely of safe attacks, it wouldn't be a battle at all.

To;Dr: don't penalize for us making our characters realistically imperfect.

I'm a bit torn on this one as well. I don't think size should be a HUGE factor, since yes, (most) people will just want to make the biggest wolves. But perhaps judges should take into account what the players WANT to happen. If they are aiming for a nasty, fair fight -- or if, say, I WANT my character to lose. I love imperfection in characters, and sometimes try to get my characters hurt -- so it'd be nice to have an option to help make the fight lean in a certain direction?

and I can see Fray's concern, a 12 year old roleplayer who just started playing vs someone like me, who is 21 and has been roleplaying for 10+ years. (Not saying I'm particularly good, but I obviously have more experience)

/rant

I believe that the judging system is quite fair, but as Frayer said, soon there will be a crap ton of 42 inch wolves, and the smaller ones don't get to have the size they want. With the defenses, I don't believe it is completely fair to not mention every defense in the actual post and demote points which have been previously stated in earlier posts.

In matter of fact, I wish to train to be a judge, yes I am new, but I will do whatever you ask of me toprove myself right and become of an assistance team on Alacritis.

Well, I've mentioned a lot of this in other places, but for sake of organization I will reiterate here <3


I like our current judging system, it offers a lot to teach roleplayers what they are doing wrong, and what they are doing right. A lot of simpler systems neglect this aspect, and I think it makes a huge difference. I have read almost all of the fight threads here at least once, and i have to say that I have noted a significant growth in a certain roleplayer (who will remain nameless) between her first fight and her second. I don't know for sure, but I attribute most of this growth to the critique of her first fight.

Also, I don't mind height and weight being added in, but I think writing skill should always weight more than stats, because as many have stated here, stats are easily abused. Plus, we really don't need a million 500 pound wolves running around beating the smaller wolves up.

As for the issue of younger roleplayers not having as much of a chance, I disagree with this. I think anyone can win a fight regardless of writing style or experience so long as they do a good job and pay attention to the details. Once you've fought in a fight once ( or even just read the fighting form ) it's not too difficult to practice adding in all of those details to each of your posts.

And as for the issue of being deducted for putting your wolf in a vulnerable position.. It's not so much that we're punishing you for doing it, as we're making sure the playing field stays even. For example, if my wolf does more risky fighting, the odds are he/she is going to be hurt more than a wolf who focuses more on defensive tactics, etc. Make sense? I dunno, it's early -.-

All in all I like our current system, but I do think that it's a bit tedious from time to time, and I wonder if we could dull down the system for less-important fights. For instance, we could have the long tedious critiques of the pack challenges and death matches, and then perhaps a slightly more condensed version for other fights.

In addition, I'd also be open for judge training, since I now have a reasonable amount of fighting experience on Alacritis.

I am a little null on the whole RPing-experience thing. Fighting is an optional feature of RPing unless you make an excessively v8olent character. And you don't have to be a good roleplayer to be clear, either, so clarity has nothing to do with it, really. We can't make everyone happy. I do detest the idea of a handicap, though. It'd definitely cause drama and issues and disputes with fairness.

I think the level we have our fighting set at is a good way to get people to improve. It sets a solid goal for most RPers, rookie or experienced.

Let's address this all individually:


Frayer:
- See, what I'm wondering, is if maybe we can have like a 10:90 or 20:80 split of size importance in a fight, (the smaller number being the actualy size of a wolf factoring in) but, then I get to thinking, how would we realistically factor all of this in?

I won't, and I am sorry, take away from the clarity factor of fighting, because I am so pro improvement, and I think, as you stated, we take that away, we take away the importance of trying and growing as a writer, fighter, and over all roleplayer. You know?


Starsight:
-My only issue with what you say here, well it's not that we are taking away points for imperfection, we are just using the natural imperfections, to balance out, we definitely are not penalizing you, this is why we have the realism section, if you go and start making your wolf perfect, in every fight, no faults blah blah blah, you will get docked in realism, but where you say...expose your neck and lose 2 points to defense for not covering it, or whatever, you also get 2 points in realism, because for them to make that attack, they had to had to had to expose their neck.

Continuing on you, I also don't dock, when /i/ judge, for risky movement, I actually have a tendency to award points so long as the risk is realistic, and something viable. You will never see me subtract points because a move was different, extraordinary, or dangerous. You have my word on that.


Nyx:
-See what I said to frayer, about some kind of ratio? I'm considering that...you know? It's just, we have to figure out how to get it going, and with Fray's concern and yours, that clarity, has to stay, I can't just let them win if their attacks make no sense...you know?

Furthermore, you can have your wolf lose in a fight, if you want it too, it's not mandatory that judges JUDGE EVERYTHING. If you need your character to lose...have 'em lose! Have 'em make a mistake they get docked for somewhere, you know, whatever you need to do. Clarity only counts for 10 points in a fight, there are 40 other ones, it's very minimal really.

Enigma:
-right here, what you are saying, this is exactly why I don't wanna base it off of size. I've been on a site, where you actually get most of your fight, based off of size, and because of my character being as fiery as he is, I had to make him large, because even though I wrote better or I fought better overall against a large opponent, I would still lose, so I had to make a bigger character, and revamp it. It sucked major.

On the judging thing, I am only accepting veterans or people that have been around for a very long time, as I notice you improving, maturing, and getting a better grip on the site, I might ask you to train. I'll definitely keep you in mind.

Andy:
-yes. all of this.


Starsight:Yes, you've been around Alacritis and are a good enough IC fighter, than I can definitely trust you with training.

Indeed! it is optional! and this is what so many people miss! you don't have to fight, I mean, granted, if your character goes screwing with Zara, Banshee, or any of the baddies, they need to expect to get slapped like a mofo >:D. anywho, that's why we have evil characters, and why we have different PvP settings. if you dont wanna get you're head removed, I highly suggest staying on semi-real or lower. y'know? And, I actually do feel as though clarity has something to do with it, because i mean....if I can't understand what you just wrote...how on Earth do I know if your wolf is winning and how on Earth does the other writer configure a reply? I'm not saying you have to be experiened, but clarity is definitely a want.






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Something else entirely, I wanted to show you, with permission from her, how a friend from another site judges, tell me what you think, let me know, and maybe we can alter how we do it a bit?

the form

WOLF A ? height, weight	WOLF B ? height, weight
? ATTACKS ? DEFENSES ? INJURIES ? REALISM ? GOD MODELING OR POWER PLAYING? ? CLARITY ? OVERALL SUMMERY	? ATTACKS ? DEFENSES ? INJURIES ? REALISM ? GOD MODELING OR POWER PLAYING? ? CLARITY ? OVERALL SUMMERY
the winner is wolf a
The thread may now continue, however neither party can engage in any sort of fighting.

how it works

When you use the form above, following it is quite easy. Here are the questions that you will have to answer with each of the categories of the form.

? ATTACKS How well rounded were they? Did they hit? Did they leave damage? Were there any counter attacks?

? DEFENSES Were they constant? Were they forgotten?

? INJURIES Were they significant? Did they impede the user?

? REALISM Was the damage taken realistic? Were the attacks realistic? Did the wolf react realistically?

? GOD MODELING OR POWER PLAYING? Was there any god modeling? Was there any power playing?

? CLARITY Was it easy to read? Did you know where they were attempting to attack? Were the defenses clearly stated?

? OVERALL SUMMERY What did the player do good? Where do they need some improvement?

how do i decide a winner?

Deciding a winner is never easy, and it must be completely unbiased. The winner of the fight must always be the one who dealt the most damage and received the least amount. However, this is where realism comes into a big thing. Realism basically out weights everything. If one character was more realistic than the other, the obviously the person who was the most realistic will win. If both parties were realistic, then the wolf who dealt the most damage wins.

Based on the last paragraph, that judging model makes more sense. Our model puts much weight on tactics and a little less on the actual damage than that one seems to. I do think the weight of each of our judging categories should be adjusted a bit based on everything I've read so far, but the entire model shouldn't be thrown out.
Right now, we don't exactly have a realism category but realism affects all of the other categories (ie. an unrealistic attack deducts points from the ATTACK category).
So, maybe a point weight like this may work better:
CLARITY: 6
POWERPLAYING: 6
ATTACK: 12
DEFENSE: 12
INJURIES: 14

I don't think wolf size should factor into the equation directly, but it can still be kept in mind when we're determining what's realistic or not when scoring the other categories. That way it won't make a huge difference, only a few points or none at all if the smaller challenger knows how to handle a large opponent.

Oh, Lu, by 'clarity has nothing to do with it,' I meant that clarity has nothin to do with your RPing skill. You can be a new RPer and your posts can still be clear. Complexity is never a requirement and simplicity can also even help the clarity of your posts.

Oh, yes I agree with that fully star. ^_^

What do you guys think about this?

Also, please comment on the following:

Getting rid of full dodges? yes or no? Should your wolf be able to dodge every time it is realistic, or do you guys like that each party needs to take realistic damage?

Challenger ? Name

Realism~ [-/5]

Notes -

Clarity~ [-/5]

Notes -

Powerplaying~ [-/5]

Notes -

Attacks~ [--/20]

Notes -

Defenses~ [--/20]

Notes -

Injuries~ [--/20]

Notes -

Total~ [--/75]

Notes -

Other~

Notes -

Challengee ? Name - Health

Realism~ [-/5]

Notes -

Clarity~ [-/5]

Notes -

Powerplaying~ [-/5]

Notes -

Attacks~ [--/20]

Notes -

Defenses~ [--/20]

Notes -

Injuries~ [--/20]

Notes -

Total~ [--/75]

Notes -

Other~

Notes -

Results!

Winner ?

[Name] must either flee, pass out, or submit.

My opinion is that if the fight is only going to last four to five rounds, no full dodge should be able to be used because your talking twenty to twenty-five percent of the fight is just wasted. If the match is going to be longer like ten-fifteen rounds than I dont see a problem with it, but for a short match, I would say no.

Well, my answer would be yes and no,meaning that I'm going both ways.

--Yes
I partly believe that wolves should take at least some damage from all attacks when it is realistic. But maybe it can dodge one lone attack, but takes damage from the others

--No
The full dodge should also stay since there are times when a wolf can realistically dodge an attack fully. But maybe there should be three full dodges, but they can only be used when it is realistic.
Ie:

Wolf 1's attack is swiping around the eyes after slamming into foe
Foe dodges by backing up

Say that the first wolf is faster than the foe. It would be unrealistic to dodge every attack.

We can't guage fights by speed of characters, as there is no viable method of suggesting which wolf is faster, and to me, there is nothing more annoying that when two writers do this...


Wolf A began sprinting.
Wolf B chased wolf A, passing them a bit.
Wolf A sped up and passed wolf B.
Wolf B sped up and passed wolf A.
Wolf A sped up and passed wolf B.
Wolf B sped up and passed wolf A.
and it just keeps going.


IT KILLS ME.


Full dodges aren't gonna be based off of rounds, cuz I mean, that just kinda drowns me. xD i want it to be one use, or no uses, and I think you guys should, quite frankly, be mature enough to know if your character is gonna get hit, and not just act like they are perfect, a lot of you are.

I agree. Speed cannot be gauged in fights like this.

And rounds.. that'd get complicated to regulate as well. I agree it's a use it or not kind of thing.
Characters are not perfect, and WILL retain damage if they get in a fight, that's why it's called a fight!

I think we can do away with full dodges AS LONG AS people can learn to be realistic about injuries. You are going to have to take hits, it's a fact.

as much as it pisses me off when people use dodges to attacks that i made, it should not be removed. wolves, in real life, are capable of dodging attacks, so our little imaginary wolves should not be forced to stand there and take an attack -- like some little being in their head is like NOPE, CAN'T DODGE. IT'S NOT ALLOWED. THIS MIGHT KILL YOU BUT YOU TAKE THAT SHIT, MKAY? sorry if this sounds rude. i'm just sayin'.

it just wouldn't be realistic in my opinion.


also, in regards to size playing a factor..i would like to point out that just because a character is larger than their opponent, it does not mean that they are more likely to win. whilst larger characters will inflict more damage upon smaller characters when they throw their weight into them, smaller characters will be more quick to avoid those attacks. i don't really believe size should play a factor in how the fight is judged. however, i do believe size could play a key factor in the damage dealt out during an attack or how likely a character is to avoid an attack.

PSiwouldlovetolearntojudgefights

Aly I effing love you.


And, if we remove the full dodge, it means you can dodge more than one attack in the whole fight, which to me makes it more realistic...i think maybe you were confused about what i was sayin'?